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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/16/2007 Posts: 2,707 Location: Staten Island, New York
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/3/2015 Posts: 643 Location: New Hampshire
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Thank you Vinny for the great photos.
- Kyle
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/11/2008 Posts: 1,605 Location: North Wales
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Right, I'll have my input so no jumping on me! I don't post very often but read everything! I am experienced at operating AND rigging this machine, LR1300. It is a huge system length being used on the crane that went over and the to me it is blatantly obvious what has happened! The investigation will no doubt draw up its conclusions in due time. Ever photo, and of course the video is evidence enough to conclude the luffer has not been lowered to the floor before the main boom, or tower if you like has been started to lower. This has caused the crane to simply lose balance. One thing I will say is, from experience, and I personally think it's a bad idea, when the rigging key is switched on (and it would have been to lower the boom)this crane swops it's winches on the the master levers and the lever that operates the luffing winch while in a working cofiguration changes to working the main Derrick while on a rigging mode! If the operator is unaware of this then it's a recipe for the disaster that happened!
As for the wind, yes of course it would have a effect but it's not caused the accident.
So no "your talking out of your ass" comments cos seriously I am not. This crane on this amount of boom is a very difficult crane rig and work, and a very experienced man is needed in the seat.
Gaz
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/7/2005 Posts: 1,149 Location: Copake, NY
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Great pictures! Did they operate the LTM1350 with 2 blocks? Kerst http://forums.dhsdiecast.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1096251
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/13/2005 Posts: 1,321 Location: Latrobe,Pa.
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Thanks Vinny. Wow ,Upsets me to see that.hope and pray everyone that was injured recovers.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/17/2006 Posts: 1,169 Location: NJ
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Gaz wrote:Right, I'll have my input so no jumping on me! I don't post very often but read everything! I am experienced at operating AND rigging this machine, LR1300. It is a huge system length being used on the crane that went over and the to me it is blatantly obvious what has happened! The investigation will no doubt draw up its conclusions in due time. Ever photo, and of course the video is evidence enough to conclude the luffer has not been lowered to the floor before the main boom, or tower if you like has been started to lower. This has caused the crane to simply lose balance. One thing I will say is, from experience, and I personally think it's a bad idea, when the rigging key is switched on (and it would have been to lower the boom)this crane swops it's winches on the the master levers and the lever that operates the luffing winch while in a working cofiguration changes to working the main Derrick while on a rigging mode! If the operator is unaware of this then it's a recipe for the disaster that happened!
As for the wind, yes of course it would have a effect but it's not caused the accident.
So no "your talking out of your ass" comments cos seriously I am not. This crane on this amount of boom is a very difficult crane rig and work, and a very experienced man is needed in the seat.
Gaz That is a very important note about the winches swapping in mode configurations. Glad to see someone actually experienced on this rig shed some light. I keep my mouth shut 99.9% of the time on here when it comes to people flapping their gills about things they have no actual experience being around. Yes, we all have a right to opinion. It's a bad accident that could of been much much worse. The rig, they make em everyday. The life, not. The operator has to live with this the rest of his life. It's just not something that you forget. We rally round the family, with a pocket full of shells.....
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/24/2011 Posts: 64
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so my question is this , it was bay crane's unit but from what i have read it was not being operated by a bay crane operator? If that is the case Why? as gaz stated you would need to be a highly experienced operator to have that crane in that configuration in that situation. I had 10 years in the seat of a whole slew of different cranes, before i got out of that industry and the way we usually did things was there were certain guys that more or less stayed with certain cranes. i ran them all but some of bigger rigs i would get pulled off something else to run those, it was me and like 3 other guys that were that way, ran them all but when it came to certain cranes/situatuions whatever it was always one of the 3 of us. would it not in a perfect world make sense to have a really experienced (with that crane for sure) operator in the seat in a max boom tight spaced high difficulty level situation? having worked with and around ALL for those years i also noticed that they did not rent huge stuff out like that bare. i am not throwing rocks, just trying to get a sense of what really happened. its a terrible deal for everyone involved.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/16/2007 Posts: 2,707 Location: Staten Island, New York
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@Kerst Yes they put the two on so they could trip the carbody upright. @Ian377 the crane was being rented by Galasso rigging, but the crane was owned by Bay Crane. I believe Bay only uses Union operators and to operate cranes with that amount of boom in the city I'm pretty sure you need to obtain a certain endorsement rather than a regular operator's license. So I could Imagine he was extremely experienced.
-Vinny http://www.heavytruckphotos.com/
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/13/2006 Posts: 2,508 Location: PA
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Whenever we "rent" a crane from Ampquip, at least from my experience we rent the rigger and operator with the crane. I wouldn't be surprised if Bay Crane did the same. I'm sure the guy in the seat was experienced, and could have just paniced, I don't know I'm not going to speculate further than that. It's a tragedy that any lives were lost, everyone makes mistakes, even experts.
regards, Jim
"Once again, concussion by safety" -Mike Rowe
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/23/2010 Posts: 701 Location: Washington, DC
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Several added comments.
I have now twice heard the media announce that the New York City government has issued new regulations pertaining to crawler cranes before we even know the cause.
In my earlier comments, my preface included concern for the companies and their employees involved. These are not experiences one forgets. They are often not give the deference or consideration they deserve.
Bare rental is a common practice in crawler crane and tower crane rental. It not common in the daily or short term rental markets more commonly involving mobile cranes. It is a risk management technique and has its place and purpose.
The issue of operator classification by type or size is currently under review by US OSHA as the regulations that they issued did not follow the intent of those that drafted the proposed regulations.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/24/2011 Posts: 64
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Again i am not trying to place blame or start trouble or anything like that, more just trying to see what the actual story is. i am one of those guys who believes non of what he hears and only half of what he sees thats all. very bad deal and i feel bad for the operator, as it was stated previously, for the rest of his life he will never go a day without thinking about it. dc craneman, are they proposing some sort of levels system or grading system? like a grade d you can be from 15 to 65 ton, and c you can be 65 to 150 etc.?
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/6/2004 Posts: 617 Location: USA
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Gaz wrote: One thing I will say is, from experience, and I personally think it's a bad idea, when the rigging key is switched on (and it would have been to lower the boom)this crane swops it's winches on the the master levers and the lever that operates the luffing winch while in a working cofiguration changes to working the main Derrick while on a rigging mode! Seriously? That design is an accident waiting to happen! I would expect a manufacturer like Liebherr to be better than that. Guess the designer thought it looked good on his computer screen.
Dump on the edges, the middle will take care of itself. Never look down on ANYONE! Unless it is to lift them up.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/16/2015 Posts: 154
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627push/pull wrote:
Seriously? That design is an accident waiting to happen! I would expect a manufacturer like Liebherr to be better than that. Guess the designer thought it looked good on his computer screen.
It happens all the time in all sorts of industries. The engineers who design equipment do not operate or repair/maintain said equipment. I have seen all sorts of design SNAFU's on equipment that leaves you wondering how they got the darn thing approved and built.
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