|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 115
Location: East TN
|
I was wondering, say if something weighs 200 US tons in real life, what would i weigh in 1:50th scale, and how do you calculate it? Thanks, Trace
Right Wing Extremeists:Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, and MEI listed the Federal Government as a dependent on my taxes this year.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,774
Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA
|
I did some research and some weighing and here is what I found, hope it helps.
1. Liebherr HS855HD small counter weights are ( in American weight) 3300 lbs each,
which figures out to 52,800 oz. (3300 x 16 = 52,800). This is from the data sheets from Liebherr.
2. The NZG model which is 1:50 scale, these same weights are 0.4 oz each. I weighed them on my kitchen scales, they are also 11 grams if that helps.
If I do the math (on my TI-83) I get a figure of 7.58 E -6.
0.4/52,800 = 7.58 E -6
So in conclusion I haven't the foggiest how they figure the weight in scale models and I haven't found any information other than the dimensional scale figures such as 1:50 = 1 inch = 50 inches.
I'm still scratching my head (and another cup of java) trying to figure it out!!!
Dain
I'm a kid at heart, so I will play with any model construction vehicle from 1:87 scale to 1:1 scale!!!!
Age is a state of time NOT a state of mind!!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/27/2008
Posts: 2,208
Location: in an igloo
|
When you think about it .. Scaled down dimension generally its just lines on paper ..Material ,water,steel ,air have specific weights and mass ..all 1:1 scale ..volumetricly speaking..it dosent change regardless of scale.. scale back a cubic foot or cubic meter..multiply that result with 495 which is what cast steel weighs per cubic foot.. I came up witha number of 36grams on 200ton ..thats not right..i dont think given that 200 ton of steel is equal to 816cu/ft of it..give or take a bit
Q-Ball a wolf in Jesus skin ---the sorcerer of reasonable commentary  I smile & wave Sometimes I think life is just a rodeo,
The trick is to ride and make it to the bell.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 4,065
Location: Dublin Ireland
|
I think,I could be hopelessly confused here,some calculator work and i came up with eg.. a 50mm cube has a volume of 50x50x50=125000 scaling that down by scaling the dimensions so.. 1mm x 1mm x 1mm= 1mm so scaling down mass or volume by our 1/50 divide by 125,000 I tried it again on say a 300mm cube 300x300x300= 27,000,000 multiply this by the density of mild steel 7.85g/cm3(or the known density of the material you are scaling) I'm working in mm so 7.85g/cm3 is .00785g/mm3 ok so back to the 300mm cube 27,000,000 x .00785 = 211950g (211.95kg's) now a scaled down 300mm cube to 1/50 is 6mm x 6mm x 6mm =216mm3 216 x .00785 = 1.6956g how to check this is now divide 211950g by the previously mentioned 125,000 and you get 1.6956 so if a weight from a terex demag ac500 is 10tonnes which is 10,000,000g divide it by 125,000 and you get 80g I checked this with a 1/50 ac500 weight,its not a million miles away,it comes in around 68g,considering the weights are not mild steel and have a small cavity too ok so after this,anyone else out there more confused now like me??  lol
Why is "phonetically" spelt with a "ph"? ... It's better to be silent and thought a fool, then to speak up and remove all doubt The complex of Newgrange was originally built between c. 3100 and 2900 BC,[2] meaning that it's aproximately 5,000 years old. According to Carbon-14 dates,[3] it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, and predates Stonehenge by about 1,000 years.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/2/2007
Posts: 5,967
|
Graham...... WTF!?!?! 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 4,065
Location: Dublin Ireland
|
ok i calculated the weight of an ac500 if it was scaled down weight wise lol
768g!! lol
96,000,000g/125000=768g
the real 1/50 ac500 weighs in at about 3700g,so
3700x125000= 462,500,000g so 462 tonnes!!! thats 4.81 times heavier lol
Why is "phonetically" spelt with a "ph"?
... It's better to be silent and thought a fool, then to speak up and remove all doubt
The complex of Newgrange was originally built between c. 3100 and 2900 BC,[2] meaning that it's aproximately 5,000 years old. According to Carbon-14 dates,[3] it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, and predates Stonehenge by about 1,000 years.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,774
Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/1/2009
Posts: 146
|
i think its something like this:
e.g.
if in real life something weights 1000t
in 1:50:
1000/50=20
20/50=0.4
0.4/50=0.008t
0.008X1000=8kg
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 115
Location: East TN
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,559
Location: Edmonton, AB
|
First, when I read your topic question I was like "Ok, pass it nobody's gonna care about it"...
Know, I'm laughing quite hard cause of Graham's theroy which is completely crazy in my opinion, but still, funny.
Now, what I'm really wondering is.. WHY would you scale down weight? For a crane load? Use your logic. If it tips, take a bigger crane or a smaller load. For a truck load, exact same thing as the crane. For the weight of a general model? There is no reason at all.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but really, I don't get it.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,774
Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA
|
Antho it's for those of you and possibly me that want to build scale stuff to the correct weight, example additional counter weights for your cranes.
My Liebherr HS855HD (only one I have other than the RC45 Terex) has a place for a carbody weight but no weight came with it so if I want an exact scale model of it I would need to know a scale weight to make it!!
Graham hit on the formula and the figure to divide by, if models are 1/50th the size of the real unit then the weight would be also BUT the figure needs to be expressed as volume from the dimentional size.
The HS855 small CW is (in US weight) as follows
the real machine's, 3300 lbs or 52,800 ozs
the 1/50 model from NZG, 0.4 ozs
so all things considered the lenth, Width and Height being 1/50 the real machine then the volume would be 1/50 of the real machine.
so you take and 50^3 (50 cubed or 50x50x50) which is 125,000 and use that as a divisor or
52,800/125,000 = .4224
also a 500 ton machine would be scaled as follows (remember this is US weights),
500 tons x 2000 lbs (equals 1 ton)= 1,000,000 lbsx 16 (ounces in a pound)= 16,000,000 ozs,
now divide 16,000,000 by 125,000 = 128 ounces or 8 lbs.
the 125,000 number would also work for meteric tonnes as well as the number is representative of 1/50 of the real machine!!!!!
My numbers should be close to spot on!!!
Dain
I'm a kid at heart, so I will play with any model construction vehicle from 1:87 scale to 1:1 scale!!!!
Age is a state of time NOT a state of mind!!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2007
Posts: 304
Location: milton keynes UK
|
to get a scale weight is the same method as to obtain the scale length.
example:
to obtain 1.50 scale divide by 50
to obtain 1.48 scale divide by 48
etc etc
100 metres @1.50 = 200mm
3 metres @1.50 = 60mm
100 metres @1.48 = 208 mm
3 metres @1.48 = 62.5 mm
100 tonnes @1.50 = 200 kg
100 tonnes @1.48 = 208 kg
Hope this helps.
Ray...
Nostalgia is not what it used to be
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/8/2007
Posts: 2,764
Location: Norfolk,va
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 4,065
Location: Dublin Ireland
|
getting a scale size in one dimension you use the 1/50,
but for weight or more acurratly mass,mass no matter how small is in 3 dimensions (with the exclusion of quantum and time as the 4th dimension,lets not go there lol) divide by 125,000
so Mass is Lenght x Width x height
so it becomes 50 x 50 x 50 =125,000
Why is "phonetically" spelt with a "ph"?
... It's better to be silent and thought a fool, then to speak up and remove all doubt
The complex of Newgrange was originally built between c. 3100 and 2900 BC,[2] meaning that it's aproximately 5,000 years old. According to Carbon-14 dates,[3] it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, and predates Stonehenge by about 1,000 years.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,774
Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA
|
But Ray, you have to go from tonnes/Kgs down to grams!!!
The 125,000 number to divide by is almost 99.9% spot on in either measurement system!!!
Dain
I'm a kid at heart, so I will play with any model construction vehicle from 1:87 scale to 1:1 scale!!!!
Age is a state of time NOT a state of mind!!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 4,065
Location: Dublin Ireland
|
lets say you have two cubes,
one is half the length,half the width and half the height of the other
but its not half the size/volume,its 1/8 the size/volume 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2
same thing with a model 1/50 the size
Why is "phonetically" spelt with a "ph"?
... It's better to be silent and thought a fool, then to speak up and remove all doubt
The complex of Newgrange was originally built between c. 3100 and 2900 BC,[2] meaning that it's aproximately 5,000 years old. According to Carbon-14 dates,[3] it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, and predates Stonehenge by about 1,000 years.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,559
Location: Edmonton, AB
|
dain555 wrote:Antho it's for those of you and possibly me that want to build scale stuff to the correct weight, example additional counter weights for your cranes. Oh ok, now I see the point, thanks. 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/4/2006
Posts: 391
Location: Peru, Indiana
|
I asked this question a long time ago and was told you can't scale mass. The example that was used was a concrete block. I don't remember what the weights were but he said if you take a 2' cube of concrete in 1:1 it will weigh x pounds. Then if you take a 1/50 2' cube of concrete, it will weigh less than 1/50th the 1:1 cube. Don't know if this makes sense but it made me quit trying to figure it out. Gave me a headache!
Chris
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 7,752
Location: arlington, Tx
|
Oh man what a great thread, I am so lost here but I just keep reading  Hey you guys got me to smile Jason
NIkl Scale Models
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2007
Posts: 2,774
Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA
|
Thanks Jason, LMFAO!!!
The simplest way I could explain it with the weight is that 1/50 scale weight is actually 1/125,000.
To find a 1/50 scale dimension you divide the number by 50, to find a scale weight you divide the actual weight by 125,000 (or 50 cubed)
Example:
100 foot boom in real life is divided by 50 for 1/50 scale. Remeber the units have to be equal so 100 feet has to be turned into inches so 100x12=1200inches.
Formula;
1200/1 x 1/50 = 24inches or a scale boom in 1/50 would be 24 inches long.
Weight is different as you have three dimensions that have to be figured hence
50L x 50W x 50H = 125,000
now if you want a scale weight in 1/50 you need to divide by the 125,000
Example:
100 US ton in 1:1 scaled to 1/50th, remember everything needs to be in ounces for this!!
100 Tons = 200,000lbs (2000lbs/ton), 200,000=3,200,000 ounces (16oz/lb)
Formula;
3,200,000/1 x 1/125,000 or 3,200,000/125,000 = 25.6 ounces in 1/50 scale!!
Anyone lost yet???
Oh and there will be a quiz on this on friday, LOL!!!!!
Dain
I'm a kid at heart, so I will play with any model construction vehicle from 1:87 scale to 1:1 scale!!!!
Age is a state of time NOT a state of mind!!
|
|
|
Guest |
