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Super Secret Photos of the P&H 4100XPC Model! Options · View
Paul R
Posted: Monday, November 15, 2010 6:49:46 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 8,390
Location: Lincolnshire
micko wrote:
Applause
Fantastic photos wish i could buy it.
Model Price + Postage +20% tax on both, Too much.
So why did TWH turn its back on the UK fans.
Mick


Why do you say this?
micko
Posted: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:42:49 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 12/20/2003
Posts: 299
Location: Newcastle /UK
Hi Paul
When this model was first announced it was said that this model would not be sold in europe, or has that changed?
Mick
Mark Bridle
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:07:27 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 8/8/2002
Posts: 787
Location: Clevedon UK
I absolutely agree, TWH has turned its back on customers in Europe, I for one would have payed a deposit, but to then have shipping and tax which is about 30% in total from the States is too much. In this present economic climate its just taking the mick out of collectors in Europe. Is there a rational explanation for this policy Chuck?

Komatsu will not have any scruples regarding discarding the P & H brand name.........see Demag, their name was far superior to Komatsu, in mining circles. Somehow a 4100 shovel in Komatsu yellow and blue colours makes me feel a little queasy.

Mark Bridle
footloose52
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:33:58 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 348
Location: Western Australia
I really can't see it being a fault of, or blame of TWH, if the UK Government puts ridiculous barriers and taxes in front of
purchases, not just on models but any goods, I think you should put your energies into changing things via your member
of Parliment, not the DHS Forum or TWH and the like..

In Australia, our Government is kind enough to allow us to import goods with no cost on goods up to a value of $1000
and 10% tax if the value goes above that, if your backward Govt throws in a 30% tax, as I say, I can't see that being
TWHs problem unfortunately
Regards from down under
Peter
gbarnewall
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:13:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 4,063
Location: Dublin Ireland
Did TWH just specifically up the price of their model for Europe alone? I have a feeling this is why NZG dropped them like a hot poker as importers,they have since sealed a deal with Tekno but it will be interesting to see their prices,

the euro price for the 4100 in some shops is €850 which is about $1155,how is $1155 the same as the US price of $850?????,I think they should just pull out of Europe altogether,

I recently bought a locomotive from the US,US price was $399 plus $70 for shipping thats in euros €293 + €51,which is €344,then I got hit with €78.67 duty,so it pushes it to €422.67,I recently scoured the web to find a european shop that sells the same locomotives,at a price of about €520 + shipping,

it feels like you're getting bent over when you get hit at the door with duty but look into the overall cost of getting it shipped from the US,it could be alot cheaper

Why is "phonetically" spelt with a "ph"?

... It's better to be silent and thought a fool, then to speak up and remove all doubt

The complex of Newgrange was originally built between c. 3100 and 2900 BC,[2] meaning that it's aproximately 5,000 years old. According to Carbon-14 dates,[3] it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, and predates Stonehenge by about 1,000 years.

drdcco
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:29:04 AM

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Joined: 8/9/2002
Posts: 1,375
Location: Harrisburg, Pa
Chuck,,
We'll have the truck on the next trip out, and if nessecary a trailer.
Dave

Nothing is impossible,,just difficult....
Mark Bridle
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:58:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/8/2002
Posts: 787
Location: Clevedon UK
Hey footloose instead of slagging me off why don't you try and understand the post. I'm not complaining about tax, I resent the fact that this model is only available from the USA. Hence I incur a large increase in price. TWH have been quick enough to take our money on Bucyrus shovels, purchased through a vendor (NZG) here in Europe. Why only now, having established an interest in large mining shovels in Europe, do they insist on this P & H model only being available from the USA? Its not as if they are made there is it? Is this the thin edge of the wedge from TWH? With all future models only being sourced from the States. As regards me using this forum to air my views regarding model matters I hope you are quick enough to police everybody else on here. I don't recall anybody making you a moderator.

Mark Bridle
Paul R
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 11:48:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 8,390
Location: Lincolnshire
micko wrote:
Hi Paul
When this model was first announced it was said that this model would not be sold in europe, or has that changed?
Mick


No, you are right. I just missed that point.

For the few TWH models I buy I generally pick them up in the USA and then pack them in a bag Whistle

But I can't see this happening for this model!

Paul R
admin
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 1:12:23 PM
Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration

Joined: 6/27/2007
Posts: 1,197
Hello guys,

This model is available all over the world. If a UK or European dealer sets the price high, whose fault is that? Not the manufacturer! There was never an announcement that the model was not going to be sold in Europe that I have seen.

I was at the meeting in Manitowoc when TWH and P&H decided to move forward with this project. The reasons behind the deposit and the lower margins are simple. TWH wanted to supply P&H with a great product and also supply the collector market at a reasonable retail price. They could have jacked up the retail price on the models, but they were aware of the impact that would have. So we all concocted this plan of taking deposits and removing dealer margin in order to get the project done and the model to market. Perhaps it was not the best idea, but it got the project going.

Some dealers/distributors do not want to handle the model because of this plan. Others were willing to comply. After a time, TWH removed the requirement to pay a deposit and the model was delayed a bit. But the model dealers are still not making a real profit on selling these models - so who can blame them for not carrying them?

You can order the model from wherever you want. If shipping and tax is too much, then don't buy it. If you can find a dealer in your country who carries the model, then please purchase it - you will not be disappointed! We carry the model here and we ship all over the world every day. With the US Dollar the way it is today and for the near future, it may be cheaper to order from us directly!

Two dealers we have supported for years are S. Bates Models in the UK and Angego Models in France. I know that both of these dealers carry the TWH product line and both are honest dealers.

Again - I say the model is worth every penny. One of the best models I have seen to date. Worthy of being in your collection! But, yes, it will cost a bit more to have it.

Chuck
Greasemonkey
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 1:55:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 6/27/2007
Posts: 2,647
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta
Did anyone stop to think maybe it wasn't TWH who abandoned anyone. Maybe they couldn't reach a deal with anyone to act as their agent this time. Just a thought.

Brian
gbarnewall
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 3:07:28 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 4,063
Location: Dublin Ireland
Tekno has nipped in to pick up the pieces a few months ago I do believe

Why is "phonetically" spelt with a "ph"?

... It's better to be silent and thought a fool, then to speak up and remove all doubt

The complex of Newgrange was originally built between c. 3100 and 2900 BC,[2] meaning that it's aproximately 5,000 years old. According to Carbon-14 dates,[3] it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, and predates Stonehenge by about 1,000 years.

Rich_F
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 4:27:20 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/14/2006
Posts: 204
Location: Sheffield, England
I don't often post on here, but this topic has picked up on some of the nitty gritty surrounding this model and some issues in general I feel. My two penneth for what it's worth on my favourite subject of import duty and VAT.

Firstly, I agree, the model looks fantastic and after some soul searching back around April/May of this year, I placed an order with DHS and paid the 50% deposit expecting delivery in September, going in to it eyes wide open knowing that as I live in the UK, I will be swelling our Governments coffers with import duty and VAT once they arrive over here to help lessen the deficit caused by the banking industry - as a supermarket advert over here says 'Every Little Helps'. Hmmm.

There is a really good website which helps me enourmously, www.dutycalculator.com and has allowed me to make an assessment of what i'm likely to be stung for. As Mark stated, it's excessive, but this is what it is and I can't change it.

One thing I am disappointed in however, is that despite my paying a 50% deposit, I had to find out about the delay in shipping until April 2011 from this forum and was not contacted by DHS staff directly. I ended up having to call myself. You may argue that as this is owned and operated by DHS it's one and the same, but I'm not aware (although willing to be proved wrong) that an 'official' announcement was made and there was certainly no communication directly with me via email which I would have expected. I've certainly never seen anything.

We've seen the posts about how long TWH will have had our money by the time this is released. What this now means for me personally, is that as VAT in the UK will rise to 20% on January 1st 2011, it will now cost me an extra 2.5% despite this being through no fault of my own making. Again, this is something I will just have to take on the chin?.

A friend has been in contact with Steve Bates over here, who has confirmed that he won't be stocking these or ordering mainly for the reasons stated earlier in this thread, there's simply nothing in it for him as a dealer.

I understand that TEKNO are now listing this on their website and the total costs including shipping from The Netherlands to the UK is in excess of 700 Euros. Hindsight is a wonderful thing?.

Finally, whilst I fully appreciate that these models are produced in conjunction with the manufacturers and they pretty much call the shots, it must be the bread and butter purchases by the model collecting enthusiasts that keep the 'base load' going. It would be nice to see a nod toward the collector sometime. I can't help feeling that sometimes things are 'rushed' leading to impractical deadlines that are delayed for a number of reasons whereby taking a step back would prove better. We have a saying in the UK - 'under promise and over deliver'.

I also appreciate that not everyone will see the world like me - this is just my opinion.

Richard
Crazy797
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 4:41:42 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/18/2003
Posts: 724
Well said, Rich, my thoughts on this never ending saga of that wonderful model is that everyone who paid before november 1 2009 should receive his model with the lowest serial number, reflecting the rank we placed our order through DHS, i-e if I was the 39th one who placed my order than my model should bare serial number 39, it would be a great mark of respect from them for keeping us on our toes for more than a year !!!!

C'mon, Chuck, I'm sure you can arrange that, it is something that can be done easily from your staff, after all, I'm not that sure that many of us did that before that asking date !!!!

My 02 cents,

Pat
RMS Models
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 5:07:18 PM

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Joined: 8/27/2002
Posts: 4,738
Location: New Jersey
Crazy797,

One small problem, I'm willing to bet that P&H gets their allotment first.

Randy M. Smolenack
RMSmodels@aol.com
randy.m.smolenack@us.army.mil
Crazy797
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 7:42:03 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/18/2003
Posts: 724
Randy, should be half and half, since all those who paid before november financed the project in a way, and we should not be penalized because THEY authorized the project...

Pat
Greasemonkey
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 2:01:37 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/27/2007
Posts: 2,647
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta
Crazy797 wrote:
Randy, should be half and half, since all those who paid before november financed the project in a way, and we should not be penalized because THEY authorized the project...

Pat


I would be willing to bet they have put up a bit more money than any of the collectors have at this point.

Brian
RowanH
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 5:19:25 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/30/2003
Posts: 4,918
Location: Melbourne, Australia
That metal sample is beautiful! Very nice work!

Rowan.

1:25th scale CAT 375L excavator

footloose52
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 6:52:35 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 348
Location: Western Australia
Mark, I don't usually worry about getting into exchanges on the Forum, but I thought I would try and square the ledger a little by adding a few points about the extra cost UK members have to pay on models,,, I can tell you that us in OZ certainly have to pay a premium on any ASAM or Alan Smith models, OHS or other models made in Europe or the UK when they are shipped to OZ, and in a lot of cases they arrive damaged,,, I'm guessing you would have received them a lot cheaper with no Tax & heaps cheaper shipping, and in some cases nil shipping compared to what we pay.. so I'm thinking the ledger evens itself out a bit,, but we in OZ and anywhere other than the US do pay top $ with shipping & other costs are added on top.....what else can I say! keep smiling Smile
Regards from down under
Peter
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