DHS Diecast Discussion Forum
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

Oversize Load...Undersized Driver Brain Options · View
Gary
Posted: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:41:12 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 197
Location: Atlanta
I suppose slowing down is not an option =>:-<

Safe Loading Is No Accident
TimT
Posted: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41:49 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 8/24/2002
Posts: 4,218
Location: usa
Undersized Brain??..... Why?.... I would need to know more before I come to that conclusion. You see what.. maybe 20 seconds or so?.. I have never pulled anything set up like that, but I sure have had four axle lowboys on air get rocking on rare occasions... mainly due to road surface issues.
GregP
Posted: Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:31:21 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/3/2003
Posts: 780
Location: Pennsylvania
That's normal, you see a multi axle with a lot of well in it. Not only will they rock side to side, they will heave up and down 6, 8 inches, even as much as a foot or more in the right conditions. It something like that scares ya, you wouldn't make it long in te specialized transport business
TimT
Posted: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:07:55 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 8/24/2002
Posts: 4,218
Location: usa
Glad you saw this Greg, My thoughts were... I have seen that quite a bit. Its dramatic to see from that angle, but not uncommon, Of course I don't know the person pulling that load, but by the looks of that rig, its not their first rodeo.
GregP
Posted: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:30:08 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/3/2003
Posts: 780
Location: Pennsylvania
A few import things to point out..... The trailer appears to be an Aspen. Aspen are built much lighter than the Talberts, Cozads, Trailkings, and so on. Thus, lighter means less strength. Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic trailers, just not built as heavy as the US counterparts.

Second thing I see. Judging by the lines in the road and the width of the crane vs the trailer deck, it looks as though the trailer is a standard 8'6" width. MANY HH trailers are 10' wide, thus a wider frame, more stability. This trailer being only 8'6", the narrow frame allows for more twisting. Kinda of like using a beam trailer or drop side deck vs a flat deck. Flat decks are the most stable.

Third thing I see..... The front gooseneck is very low and narrow. Those types of necks will twist easily.

Last thing I see.... This is a "west coast" stinger/booster. East Coast design is a little more stable because the frame runs direct to the rear. A west coast design essentially has a miniature gooseneck over the main axles at the rear of the trailer. This "neck" is very narrow and will twist and roll very easily.

Basically, this is a standard, light duty, "equipment hauler" trailer. That trailer is now where near being comparable to the type of equipment we use for very large, wide, and high freight.

boomguy
Posted: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:32:56 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/23/2004
Posts: 246
try pulling one of those before you comment and see if you can hold it without having it rock like that
By watching the video it looks like a tri low with a mechanical booster they are very unstable with a top heavy load.
SDBOB
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:33:24 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/13/2005
Posts: 1,321
Location: Latrobe,Pa.
I clicked on video interesting.Then I clicked on video in right column for large oversized load on 'blue' trucks which led me too clicking onthe Oversized Mack 'HAKE' trucks moving load to rail siding with Manitowoc truck cranes off loading load onto rail car.
johndeere4020
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:17:58 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 683
Location: ohio
I've pulled one of these trailers for years and this isn't uncommon, I've had freight boxes get on the cb
and warn me after I've traveled more than 500 miles. I always figure if it hasn't fallen off by then it
probably won't. On a side note that is why i like a beam better for a load like that, it sets there rock
solid.
HeavyHaul
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:45:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/13/2007
Posts: 269
Location: In Debt
GregP wrote:
A few import things to point out..... The trailer appears to be an Aspen. Aspen are built much lighter than the Talberts, Cozads, Trailkings, and so on. Thus, lighter means less strength. Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic trailers, just not built as heavy as the US counterparts

I agree with much of your post, with the above being the exception. I know of plenty of guys who will tell you Aspen's are plenty strong/heavy enough. There's 2 guys who visit this forum who see their company's Aspen trailers haul CAT 657 scrapers, CAT and DEERE 85+ ton hoes and CAT D10 and D11 dozers and push dozers without being broken down on a daily basis over some demanding roads.
Conversely, there are also guys on this forum (especially a guy from NJ) that will tell you just how strong or "heavy" Talberts (specifically their necks) aren't.
If it were me, I'd want this crane either on a beam, or a dropside deck with a 10' width.
There are some great heavy haul trailer manufacturers out there (both north and south of he CAN/US border),many with the ability to spec/build different neck widths and capacity's, rear platform and boom cradle widths and a variety of mechanical/hydraulic/air or gas levelling booster/stingers.
Regardless of the manufacturer, this set up isn't the best choice for that hauling that RT crane. Bounce is one thing, but that sideways sway action is bad news.
GregP
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:33:14 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/3/2003
Posts: 780
Location: Pennsylvania
I'm not bashing Aspen, and I will say incomparison to a Talbert or Nelson, they are far superior trailers. In my eyes, Aspen is side by side with Trailking. I also know that Aspen builds one of, if not the best hydraulic necks in the industry.

What I can say about aspen, is that in comparison to Trailking, they use a lower safety factoring in their designs. Any equipment I have ever speced from Aspen had been notably lighter than the Trailking counterpart. And I'm not talking lowboys. I have species and compared 200 ton dual lane transporters, 65 ton dual lane and 6 axle steerable dollies, wind mill schnabels, 13 axle flat and perimeter decks. They are all notably lighter. Not Diamond Trailers light, but light.

Trailing and Cozad, in particular, use a perpendicular box girder design crossmembers in their goosenecks. That is one thing I have never seen in any other trailer. Some may be doing, I just haven't seen it. Anyways, these crossmembers give the beams of the neck an extreme ability to counteract lateral movement of the neck beams. This is one thing that Diamond, is terrible for!

As I say. I have nothing against Aspen, they are great trailers! They have fantastic user friendliness, I do like the light weight. You just have to choose the right equipment for the freight you intend to move.
kcmtoys
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:33:40 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/3/2003
Posts: 2,143
Location: Rockford,IL.
In my opinion, that RT IS loaded heavy to the right side. A raised rail (drop deck) will lower the center of gravity and you will not have as much lift. As HeavyHaul said, a beam would have the lowest center of gravity and be the best way to haul the RT. Ken
Robert Heuston
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 9:48:38 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 1,734
Location: Hunter Valley
I'm not an expert, I've never seen what the American's use. But could the possability of the crane not being loaded directly centred on the trailer, and traveling to fast on the highway also contribute to this sway on the trailer?

Edit: something dad pointed out to me is that the out riggers aren't down. Also, has the suspension on he crane been lowered? That could also cause havock on the sway.
GregP
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:47:06 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/3/2003
Posts: 780
Location: Pennsylvania
In my experience, camber in the road cause a natural lean to the right on a high CG load. This can make a load appear to be loaded off center, when it is not. It is understandable the it would be better off on a beam or drop side bed, but those aren't always available, especially if you deliver and are grabbing a back haul. Basically, from what I see, that is a large RT. The trailer is probably at its rated capacity. With a lower safety factor, the trailer is more flexible and reactors faster and more severe to the "impact loads".....

There is only one way to maintain industry standards on deck height and basic trailer height design, and come in lighter. You reduce the flange and web thickness. Intern, you build a weaker beam. It will still handle the weight, but have more deflection. Therefore, the steel has more elasticity which means it will twist and flex more.
GregP
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:53:38 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/3/2003
Posts: 780
Location: Pennsylvania
We have Diamond, Fontaine, and Talbert flat deck 13 axles. They are all rated at 80 ton. The Diamond is the lightest, by far! All of the trailer have identical deck height, neck height, and so on. The Fiamond will twist, bounce, rock, roll, and look like the man pulling it is a maniac. Bottom line, same dimensional specs, lighter guage material, less stability.
GregP
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:59:53 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/3/2003
Posts: 780
Location: Pennsylvania
I'm sorry..... Neck height is not identical, but all standard to each manufacturer specs
Robert Heuston
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:00:58 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 1,734
Location: Hunter Valley
Here in Australia, we dont have any of these "Beam Trailer's".
But this is the standardd for HH, this here in New South Wales where I live gross combo max is 112t.



Much more stable than the beam traillers. The wider its set the better.

GregP
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:30:24 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/3/2003
Posts: 780
Location: Pennsylvania
We don't use beam trailers where I work. That is more of an equipment hauler thing. The type of equipment you guys use in Austrailia is what we would refer to as a Dual Lane. Basically, the axles cover two lanes. You also may not have the height restrictions that we do in the states. So, it's not so important to use trailers that keep the load lower. Preferably under 14'6". That is pretty much the magic number to keep you on the "big roads" nationwide. Also, we need to keep the width as minimal as possible. All in the name of permits and clearance on the highways.
Robert Heuston
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:46:41 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 1,734
Location: Hunter Valley
Here in Aus, on a "Lowboy" as you call them, max 4.6m high without permit. I helped move some Komatsu 830E chassis out of Brisbane last year up to central Queensland. Roads up there are 7m wide at the max. We were 8m wide at the top deck of the machine. Trailer opened from 3.2m closed out to 4m wide. It was interesting when we would meet another 4-5m wide load travelling the opposite way. But we managed, and from what I've seen your bad roads are the same quality of our good roads.
johndeere4020
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:43:32 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 683
Location: ohio
Putting the outriggers down on this crane and trailer combo won't work. the outriggers are wider than the trailer. If you put the pads on you would have to put something on the trailer outriggers for the crane pads to set on. Then you would be adding a fair amount of unnecessary width.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

SoClean Theme Created by Jaben Cargman (Tiny Gecko)
Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.8 (NET v2.0) - 3/29/2008
Copyright © 2003-2008 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.