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3J&G 1:50 models collection. Options · View
Quinella
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2018 10:59:48 AM

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Joined: 6/18/2003
Posts: 1,555
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
Exkvate3140 wrote:
That Renault service is very nice, good job on that one. That is one mean looking truck and fills the bill nicely.
Steve


Steve: I made that for Guy and shipped it to him. I have many custom trucks on my 50 acre lot. Three shops, mucho equipment, all sitting on a hard clay surface. I have a rail spur too. I ship container freight to many East Coast ports. If you need me to teach you anything, give me a shout. CAW PHD
Exkvate3140
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2018 1:39:15 PM
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Posts: 276
Craig your wife actually allows you to go on her 50 acre site. Per chance is that hard clay red in color. You must have an inter coastal waterway from your bathtub to the ocean for you to ship containers, and as far as your rail spur I heard that it just ran in an oval pattern. I am always willing to learn something from a Poor Handsome Dude.
Steve or Dr. Dirt
GuyM
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 1:31:35 AM
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France
Exkvate 3140 and Quinella,

Looking at your previous posts, I still don't understand what kind of conflict you are trying to solve here: please do if it helps, but not on this "peaceful" topic.

Many thanks.

Guy
GuyM
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 1:37:47 AM
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Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France
A few Caterpillar dozers in the Azur Modelisme fleet with, from top to bottom: D9G (Gescha/Conrad model), D8 and D9 (NZG):







Regards.
Guy
GuyM
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 1:40:36 AM
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France
The CCM D9 version:



An European competitor:





Regards.
Guy
GuyM
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 1:55:17 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France
A "five-legged sheep" as we say in France, the Frutiger SR 2001 scrapedozer:





That outfit is based on principles set by Hugo Cordos before World War 2, developped in the fifties by Menck & Hambrock, then passed onto Nippon Sharyo in the seventies.
It is produced nowadays by Frutiger, a Swiss company, and it combines bulldozer and scarper main functions.



Working principles and technical data issued form manufacturer's website: http://www.frutiger.ch

To be continued.
Guy
GuyM
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 1:57:50 AM
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France






Regards.
Guy
modelmaniac
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 10:44:03 AM

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Posts: 502
Location: england
I,personally,am surprised the scrapedozer isn't more popular.It replaces a lot of machines.Only one operator,lots of functions.It may be that I haven't seen many full size machines,on sites,though.Did you get that 1/50 model through the website?Or,was it acquired another way?I have always liked/been impressed with what scrapedozers are capable of doing.
GuyM
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:12:39 PM
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France
Modelmaniac,

I bought that Scrapedozer model through a NZG retailer years ago (in France or may be in Switzerland, I don't remember anymore).
I think that there was a previous version, made late seventies by NZG and badged Menck with rubber-made tracks, while this newer one has more detailed plastic-made tracks.

To be fair, the outfit has all basic functions of scraper, loader and bulldozer, but as a "rare bird" (best English translation I could find of a "5-legged sheep") cannot compete with any of those in their own field of excellence, hence the limited development and low sales. It seems limited to sites were soil volume at each transport and distance between self-loading and spraying is not that important (scrapers field of expertise) but far enough to exclude economically bulldozers and wheeled loaders (as it is traveling faster between those 2 points).

I hope it's clear and helps.
Guy
Exkvate3140
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:17:20 PM
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Joined: 7/6/2015
Posts: 276
Guy we are only joking around with each other there is no problem. I apologize if this upset you, it is all in fun.

I have never seen a scrape dozer over here, why would they just not use a regular scraper it seems like it would carry much more material. Unless it is used in areas where space is an issue.
Steve
modelmaniac
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:57:56 PM

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Location: england
A 5 legged sheep,sounds about as rare as "hens teeth" LOL.Teeth The older NZG Menck is a SR85,yours is the SR2001.Does that mean it has more carrying capacity?Or is it just an updated,newer OEM version?
modelmaniac
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 1:08:26 PM

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Location: england
GuyM
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 2:06:04 PM
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France
Exkvate3140,

No problem but I didn't pick up the joke in your "discussion": may be because I'm just French and of a different culture. Then forget about my previous comments.
To answer your question, I shall just refer to Frutiger website stating that "The Scrapedozer is the ideal machine for earthmoving on hauling distances from 50 to 500 meters. On sites where the transport distance is too long for bulldozers and too short for dumpers [or scrapers] the cost effectiveness of the Scrapedozer is overwhelming".

Modelmaniac,

I think that the SR 2001 is just an updated version of the former Menck SR85, with capacity increased from 8.5 to 10 m3. See the following link: http://www.scrapedozer.com/en/tiger/history/

Regards.
Guy
modelmaniac
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 2:59:08 PM

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Posts: 502
Location: england
Ah,I see.The SR85,is a 60s-70s machine.The one you have,is modelled on the updated machine,from the 90s.Thanks for the link.Very interesting,always good to be able to trace the evolution of any machine.Applause
Mr. Scholz
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 3:11:02 PM
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Joined: 7/14/2008
Posts: 109
Location: Germany, CE
Exkvate3140,

most of Germanys highway net was constructed with scrapers after the WW2. So most of the big jobs here are done. But in Germany, there has always been one big issue with scrapers: The rain. In our soils, you just can't keep on going with scrapers when it is raining. You have to stop and wait for the water to flow away from loading sites or haul routes an dump sites. Otherwise, the big tires of the scrapers - and their immense ground pressure! - will mix water and soil and you have a big muddy mess. Stuck machines, spinning tires. And when you load the watery mud into the dirt pans, you simply don't get no well heaped pay loads anymore.

Back in 1971-73, a scraper based contractor from the UK moved his fleet to Nothern Germany. The job was the railway connection to the Scandinavia Port of the city of Luebeck. But instead of gravel, they found clay. In the rainy weather, the team of 631s, 637s, TS 24s and D9G as D8H dozers simply had no chance. The contractor sued the city for wrong soil data, but in the end, this job broke the neck of an experienced scraper-based contractor and he had to close his doors for ever...

The concept for the scrape dozer was started by the Wehrmacht back in the 1930s. They wanted a versatile, all-weather capable, compact earth mover. You are right, scrapers offer more volume and haul speed. But:

Scrapedozers can load themselves even in hard soiles where you have to rip for using scrapers. And on the return route, they can rip on their own
Scrapedozers dont need to turn around like dump trucks or scrapers. So up to 600 yards, they simply rock. Even if they offer less haul capacity and speed
Scrapedozers can cope with mud. I've seen a loaded 24 cy, 75 ton scrape dozer zooming around in muddy terrain where I almost lost my shoes!
Scrapedozers can climb like a mountain goat
Scrapedozers can dump their load like a track loader, so they can build dams into rivers and so on

The disadvantages are: You need very good operators that can load, haul, dump and spread all day long. Doing the jobs that are normally done by several operators on a excavator, dump trucks and bulldozer. You sit in a noisy cab all day long, lots of vibrations - all responsability for the job on the shoulders of a single man.

And scrapedozers eat up tracks 2,5 times faster then a bulldozer. Because they are so productive and versatile, you can earn enough fast enough to buy new tracks, no problem. But many contractors simply don't trust these machines. That's why there are just a few scrapedozers are owned by rental fleets who know and trust them. But it's really hard to sell new ones, because many people don't understand and trust this machine...

In fact, under the right conditions, you can do the work of one excavator, 3 trucks and a dozer with a single scrape dozer. For some out there, this sounds to good to be true!
Quinella
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 6:21:57 PM

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Joined: 6/18/2003
Posts: 1,555
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
Guy: No worry. Exkvate3140 just likes to tease me because I get down on my carpet and play with my trucks and make "truck" noises. He and I are friends. He does custom work for me. He has taught me many things. All in fun. Craig
Exkvate3140
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 9:20:38 PM
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Joined: 7/6/2015
Posts: 276
Guy thanks for the response to my question on the Scrapedozer.
Steve

Mr. Scholz, thank for information and story on the scrapedozer also. It’s to bad about the scraper contractor who won the bid on bad information, and the city who obviously did nothing to help him or back up their strata survey. When I first started in the site business one general contractor told me you bid by the reports, and if you are low bidder before a contract is signed get permission to put a machine on the site and dig test pits. Then whatever the results show you, either go on to the next bid or sign the contract. Coming from a GC that is unusual and also good advice. In our neck of the woods we encountered a lot of unseen ledge, which is as bad as the clay and rainy weather combination that the scraper contractor encountered especially when the clay was not indicated on the geo report obviously the gravel would have been a no brainer with the type of iron they put on the site. Also being low bidder isn’t always good either because after the excitement of winning the bid your next thought is what did I miss?.
Steve

Quinella thanks for those kind words. Your a/c units will now go back into production, be completed and maybe even shipped.
Steve
GuyM
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 1:32:55 AM
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France
Mr. Scholz,

Excellent summary of what scrapedozers can and cannot do, together with scrapers historical background in Germany as a premium: many thanks for your valuable input.

Quinella,

Thanks for the explanation on your relationship with Exkvate3140: reading through the lines is not always easy, specially in a foreign language.

Regards.
Guy

GuyM
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 1:50:46 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France
An Azur Modelisme 1:50 construction site, somewhere in South of France:







To be continued.
Guy
GuyM
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 1:53:02 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Posts: 914
Location: Le Muy - Var - France








To be continued.
Guy
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