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Any of you operate Cat sidebooms at train wreck sites? Curious about capacitys Options · View
SDBOB
Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2018 10:11:45 AM
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Just curious about weight these machines can lift without over extending there capacitys.I witnessed Friday 2 of them pick up the front of an UP SD 90 converted to NS SD 70 specs.They removed one wheel set with motor and placed a dummy wheel in its place. I was driving by local freight yard just happened to see it. Who makes a nice 1/50 model of these sidebooms. I have the Norscot high drives not the I guess D 9 size.Thanks.
Mr. Scholz
Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2018 12:14:33 PM
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Hi SDBOB,

a D7 sized 1970ies 572 can lift around 30 tons. The next larger model, the D8 based 583 lifts about 44 tons. And the kingsize 594 will lift up to 66 tons. All numbers referring to a 4 foot overhang. These are the maxmum lift capacities, the thing I love about sidebooms is that they can not just lift, but also shift the load over a terrain. Increased overhang and bad terrain conditions decrease the lifting capacaties conciderably. Anyone with some seattime here? Would be nice to get to know more about it.

BYMO announced a pretty decent 1/50 scale odel of a Komatsu D355C sideboom, a pipelayer also wanted for train recovery purposes and in the same class as a Cat 594. Have seen pictures of a grey-painted prototype scale model by BYMO, but as far a I know it hasn't bee released yet.


Hope this helps,
Max
dain555
Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2018 12:37:46 PM

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But you are only talking about a Cat pipe layer/train wreck unit but a Liebherr RL64 is rated to lift 90,800 Kilograms (100 US tons). I would think that the RL64 would be a better Choice but I'm think it might be a case of availability which brand is used. I'm not sure but I think that the wreck units have a shorter boom length than the pipe layer tractors due to the locations that the wreck tractors work in.

Dain

I'm a kid at heart, so I will play with any model construction vehicle from 1:87 scale to 1:1 scale!!!!

Age is a state of time NOT a state of mind!!
Mr. Scholz
Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2018 3:25:43 PM
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Hello Dain,

thank you for mentioning the RL64. I was surprised about its lifting capacity which really makes this liebherr-machine stand out from the rest of the pipelayer-world. As far as I understand it, wear and tear on a sideboom is far less to this of a pipelayer and so many old 594s, D355Cs and so on are still in use. Which makes this high rating pretty interesting. I simply had to do a quick check out on Liebherrs homepage on this machine, they offer even a more modern version called RL66 which is rated to 98,000 kgs/110 ton capacity. As far as I can see, you can move the counterweight much further away as on sidebooms of other branches.

We are talking about a capacity roundabout 50% higher compared to other machines. This is intense. The undercarriage should be in the D9-class size and according dimensions. With such an improved payload the groundpressure should be much higher on the Liebherr, which, under muddy conditions, can become a drawback. Remember, train recovery often does not provide a clean, dry and prepared construction section, but you will find the train line in the middle of a field or similar. Add rainy weather - in some cases the even reason for the derailment - and you can imagine the severe circumstances you have to cope with.

Makes me think that many recovery companies simply have no interest in purchasing a new machine. On the other hand, if you have good conditions and a RL64 at bay, you can shine with a really impressive payload. The counterrotating tracks of the hydrostatic drive train can be a real advantage for maneuvering such a big piece of equipment in narrow situations like derailment sites, too.


That's all theoretical talking I'm sharing. If someone with real hand-on experience would chime in here, it would be a great help.

Cheers
Max
SDBOB
Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2018 6:46:37 PM
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Thanks guys. It was interesting, didnt learn how to post pics,seeing the height lifted to remove the wheel set nearest the fuel tank.I stayed in an adjoining alley.
kokosing Const Co
Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2018 7:00:03 PM

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I am sure Tim will chime in soon here, Winters runs 583s for wrecks. Those former UP SD90s were still spec'd as SD70, they were never converted at UP. I think the weight of them is 432k, they're very nice rebuilds, definitely the best they've done so far. The cab is very quiet and they pull very nice and smooth!

I know RJ Corman runs newer Deere sidebooms in their fleet.
SDBOB
Posted: Monday, October 01, 2018 7:33:12 AM
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I looked on line about cab no. Came up with EMD took them,approx 100 then NS rebuilt them,100,$$$$. at Altoona to SD 70 specs.
dain555
Posted: Monday, October 01, 2018 12:17:53 PM

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Max, I know Liebherr has a lifting advantage over some of the other pipe layers because of the hydraulic controlled boom whereas most of the other side boom tractors have cable operated booms. Even with 4 lines from counterweight to boom and a 3-4 line hook the lifting capacity is less than Liebherr's hydraulic cylinder boom and 4 line hook. I have a couple model RL64 pipe layers from NZG and if they represent the real machine they are nice, the way the counterweights can be positioned is great.

Also real train wreck side boom tractors have acetylene torches (oxygen and acetylene tanks, long hoses and the long head cutting torch like used for Demolition), chains and straps on the tractor so they can have the equipment on scene.

There used to be a train wreck crew that operated out of Sayre, Pennsylvania that used to work thru out the northeast, I have seen them on different wrecks near my home town of Geneva, NY back in the 60s and 70s. I believe they had about 6 to 8 side booms that were Caterpillar D8 tractors, dont remember what the side boom designation is.

Dain

I'm a kid at heart, so I will play with any model construction vehicle from 1:87 scale to 1:1 scale!!!!

Age is a state of time NOT a state of mind!!
SDBOB
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2018 7:26:17 AM
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Location: Latrobe,Pa.
Again thank you guys for the info. I'm partial to Cats.Cos buy what they need or can afford to get the job done.I remember in one post a guy did a really nice detailed model of one.
Weserhutte
Posted: Friday, October 05, 2018 5:56:24 PM
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When I received my RL66 back in the spring, I wanted to know how it compared to others. Here are the top 5 from my research and all are measured in kg at a distance of 1.2m.

1) ЧЕТРА ТГ511: 104,500
2) DEERE PL220: 99,780
3) Liebherr RL66: 98,100
4) Caterpillar PL87: 97,776
5) Superior SPX960: 96,000

dain555 wrote:
I know Liebherr has a lifting advantage over some of the other pipe layers because of the hydraulic controlled boom whereas most of the other side boom tractors have cable operated booms. Even with 4 lines from counterweight to boom and a 3-4 line hook the lifting capacity is less than Liebherr's hydraulic cylinder boom and 4 line hook.


How in ??? did you come up with that notion?
Mr. Scholz
Posted: Saturday, October 06, 2018 7:16:58 AM
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Hi Weserhutte,

thank you for this research. The only reason I can see now for incrased lifting cap. of recent generation sidebooms is the use of hystat driven winches instead of mechanically operated with clutches. That said, the RL66 has probably a freefall clutch for safety reasons. Is your RL66 1/1 or 1/50?

There was an absolutly awesome 1/25 scratchbuilt of a CAT 594 back in the days here on dhs. Anyone knows more about it?


Cheers,

Max
dain555
Posted: Saturday, October 06, 2018 12:18:49 PM

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Weserhutte wrote:
When I received my RL66 back in the spring, I wanted to know how it compared to others. Here are the top 5 from my research and all are measured in kg at a distance of 1.2m.

1) ЧЕТРА ТГ511: 104,500
2) DEERE PL220: 99,780
3) Liebherr RL66: 98,100
4) Caterpillar PL87: 97,776
5) Superior SPX960: 96,000

dain555 wrote:
I know Liebherr has a lifting advantage over some of the other pipe layers because of the hydraulic controlled boom whereas most of the other side boom tractors have cable operated booms. Even with 4 lines from counterweight to boom and a 3-4 line hook the lifting capacity is less than Liebherr's hydraulic cylinder boom and 4 line hook.


How in ??? did you come up with that notion?


Usually a cable has a lower tensile strength than a hydraulic cylinder rod and the working system pressure would equate to a larger boom load capacity. As with any type of crane the weakest part of the machine is a cable, that is part of the reason that most all cranes have the ability to use multiple pulleys to create higher lifting capacities. Unfortunately the more lines that are between two sets of pulleys the more time it takes to spool out or in on the winch. If you have a hydraulic cylinder on the boom you can boom up or down quicker with the same load than you can with a cable operated boom. The cable also has a stretch factor too. The load, time to spool and the stretch factor was one of the main reasons that bulldozers replaced the cable operated blades and went to hydraulic operated blades as the operator had more control over the blade with a quicker response time. Also hydraulics was a less expensive alternative to cable as it was very cost prohibitive to replace the cable after a set number of operating hours.


Dain

I'm a kid at heart, so I will play with any model construction vehicle from 1:87 scale to 1:1 scale!!!!

Age is a state of time NOT a state of mind!!
Exkvate3140
Posted: Saturday, October 06, 2018 12:38:18 PM
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The specs on Cat pipelayers that I have are as follows at a 4’ overhang. From the Caterpillar Performance Handbook Edition 24

572G 90,000lbs or 45t

578 155,000lbs or 77.5t

589 230,000lbs or 115t

Steve
Mr. Scholz
Posted: Saturday, October 06, 2018 1:53:38 PM
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Location: Germany, CE
Hey mates,

found an interesting thing about lifting capacity: The ISO 8813 defining the load capacity. That's much less then the maximum lifting force declared by manufacturers. For the RL66, working range/load capacity is at 48 tonnes/106,000 lbs. So that's a safety issue and we are talking about dynamic stresses and bad underground situations during pipeline work? Would like to learn more about it.

Cheers
Max
Weserhutte
Posted: Sunday, October 07, 2018 6:27:57 PM
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Location: America
dain555 wrote:
I know Liebherr has a lifting advantage over some of the other pipe layers because of the hydraulic controlled boom whereas most of the other side boom tractors have cable operated booms. Even with 4 lines from counterweight to boom and a 3-4 line hook the lifting capacity is less than Liebherr's hydraulic cylinder boom and 4 line hook.


weserhutte wrote:
How in ??? did you come up with that notion?


dain555 wrote:
Usually a cable has a lower tensile strength than a hydraulic cylinder rod and the working system pressure would equate to a larger boom load capacity. As with any type of crane the weakest part of the machine is a cable, that is part of the reason that most all cranes have the ability to use multiple pulleys to create higher lifting capacities. Unfortunately the more lines that are between two sets of pulleys the more time it takes to spool out or in on the winch. If you have a hydraulic cylinder on the boom you can boom up or down quicker with the same load than you can with a cable operated boom. The cable also has a stretch factor too. The load, time to spool and the stretch factor was one of the main reasons that bulldozers replaced the cable operated blades and went to hydraulic operated blades as the operator had more control over the blade with a quicker response time. Also hydraulics was a less expensive alternative to cable as it was very cost prohibitive to replace the cable after a set number of operating hours.


Nothing you wrote supports any sort of "lifting advantage" because of a hydraulically suspended boom! All modern pipelayers utilize hydraulic hoist winches and any differences in maximum line speed are likely to be so small as to be insignificant.

And, the main reasons dozers went to hydraulic actuation of the blade were twofold; weight distribution and positive down pressure on the (the much lighter) blade assembly.
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