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tomcat1191 wrote:So all you side walk supers here that take pictures put yourself in his shoes for a day. Has a wife,kids, house, car and needs the job in this tough economy. Kid shows up snaps a few shots. He is doing something wrong but doesn't think nothing of it and OSHA is trolling the web as the FRA does with the railroad. He gets caught loses his job or worse gets a lawsuit. I honestly won't post pictures of the work I have done. When you pull a triple stack box with 40' plates welded together... Well do the math. The guy asked a simple thing for you not to do and you ignored him. Would it be wrong for me stand on the side walk and snap shots of your wife in the shower. It's public property and I can post them on the Internet. There was a member on here that turned a company in to OSHA for doing something wrong from a picture. Funny deal was they were not even working. Even better he was from out of state. Do you get the point. We all brake the rules. I have only been here since 2009 and been watching since about 2003 and watched this place slowly fall apart and when I watch members make comments like its public property and I can do what I want just turns my stomach. All the buildings in Detroit that are left for trolls and falling in, does it mean I can go take what ever I want even though the city said no. It's public property right? Don't you work for shaw brothers. Wonder what there policy is on side walk photographers. You need permission don't you? And generally if they ask for something you respect there wishes. Most underground contractors will run you out or call the cops for trespassing. I have seen people get tickets for and lose there cameras. Maybe ssdphoto on here can shed some light on how it works. I'm sure he does not just walk out and shoot pics with out permission. OK. Here's the deal. Prior to 9-11, which was pretty much prior to the internet, mainstream digital photography, facebook, youtube, dhsforum things were pretty tame in the world of what you could shoot rather than what you couldn't shoot. The ease of being able to post something for everyone to see has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. I was still shooting film in 2001 and just getting into digital. In fact, when I started shooting The Big Dig in Boston in 1997 I was doing so from what I call 'public domain'. From roads, bridges, behind fences, but never onsite. On-site ie on a construction or demolition site (active or not) is considered private property. Even then, and this is a huge topic of discussion even in the professional photography world, what constitutes private property? Technically if you shoot any object, person, building, structure, machine and you then post, broadcast, distribute, make posters of, resell that image you cannot legally do so without a 'release' from the owner of that item or person. This is called a 'model release' or a 'property release'. Is this enforced? Sometimes. Rarely. But when it does, prepare for the worst. Unless you have a release. If someone asks you not to post something on youtube. DON'T!! Have some respect. Human decency. Class.
Stephen SetteDucati, Manager of Marketing and MediaMCM Management Corp.
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Cat924Gz wrote:Tom, You make some, note SOME valid points. Let me first say that I'm not one of these "troll's" that likes to come here and cause trouble, I've been here a while and have seen the good and the bad. I've only had to ask permission once to take pics and that was because it was on a private site, a contractor that a fellow forum member and I talk about did a project within walking distance of where I live. I started visiting the site, eventually got to talking to people, asking questions etc... I eventually got the whole run of the site and was even given access to vantage points to take pictures from that no regular person could get to. I got to know operators, laborers & even the guys from the DOT.
Do I have pictures that could get the company in trouble?, I don't know, they never did anything that put someone's life in danger as far as I saw. The project lasted 3 years, I was out there with my camera everyday that I could and even during the night work phases of the project. If you take a genuine interest in shooting a project by getting to know the people working the site and are respectful to them and honoring what they do, then chances are they will treat you with the equal respect you give them. I've been shooting heavy construction and demolition for over 20 years. I first started shooting The Big Dig in Boston from outside the gates but after coming to the same location for almost a month, talking to the guys on their coffee breaks, and giving away 8x10's of them at work helped me earn their respect to the point when I was first invited inside the gates. It took me a few more months to get down into 'the hole', 15 stories below Boston and then another year to climb to the top of the Zakim Bridge to shoot the cover of my book. I've worked alongside some of the best operators in the business. The crew I work with now knows me so well, that we work side by side, respectfully, never getting in each others way, impeding progress or violating and safety regulations. Getting to that point takes YEARS. If you guys really want to take pictures of a site and what the ironworkers, operating engineers, laborers, carpenters and everyone else in the union trades are doing to build America, do it the right way, with respect and honor.
Stephen SetteDucati, Manager of Marketing and MediaMCM Management Corp.
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ssdphoto wrote:Cat924Gz wrote:Tom, You make some, note SOME valid points. Let me first say that I'm not one of these "troll's" that likes to come here and cause trouble, I've been here a while and have seen the good and the bad. I've only had to ask permission once to take pics and that was because it was on a private site, a contractor that a fellow forum member and I talk about did a project within walking distance of where I live. I started visiting the site, eventually got to talking to people, asking questions etc... I eventually got the whole run of the site and was even given access to vantage points to take pictures from that no regular person could get to. I got to know operators, laborers & even the guys from the DOT.
Do I have pictures that could get the company in trouble?, I don't know, they never did anything that put someone's life in danger as far as I saw. The project lasted 3 years, I was out there with my camera everyday that I could and even during the night work phases of the project. If you take a genuine interest in shooting a project by getting to know the people working the site and are respectful to them and honoring what they do, then chances are they will treat you with the equal respect you give them. I've been shooting heavy construction and demolition for over 20 years. I first started shooting The Big Dig in Boston from outside the gates but after coming to the same location for almost a month, talking to the guys on their coffee breaks, and giving away 8x10's of them at work helped me earn their respect to the point when I was first invited inside the gates. It took me a few more months to get down into 'the hole', 15 stories below Boston and then another year to climb to the top of the Zakim Bridge to shoot the cover of my book. I've worked alongside some of the best operators in the business. The crew I work with now knows me so well, that we work side by side, respectfully, never getting in each others way, impeding progress or violating and safety regulations. Getting to that point takes YEARS. If you guys really want to take pictures of a site and what the ironworkers, operating engineers, laborers, carpenters and everyone else in the union trades are doing to build America, do it the right way, with respect and honor. Thanks for your input Steven, I did exactly as you described. I was in almost the same spot everyday, I was also respectful of what was going on, if I felt I was somehow in the way I moved to a safer vantage point. I did something along the lines of what you did with the pictures, I gave the laborers, operators and even a foreman pictures and eventually made up picture cd's for them as well as for one of the DOT guys.
Rob
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Cat924Gz wrote:ssdphoto wrote:Cat924Gz wrote:Tom, You make some, note SOME valid points. Let me first say that I'm not one of these "troll's" that likes to come here and cause trouble, I've been here a while and have seen the good and the bad. I've only had to ask permission once to take pics and that was because it was on a private site, a contractor that a fellow forum member and I talk about did a project within walking distance of where I live. I started visiting the site, eventually got to talking to people, asking questions etc... I eventually got the whole run of the site and was even given access to vantage points to take pictures from that no regular person could get to. I got to know operators, laborers & even the guys from the DOT.
Do I have pictures that could get the company in trouble?, I don't know, they never did anything that put someone's life in danger as far as I saw. The project lasted 3 years, I was out there with my camera everyday that I could and even during the night work phases of the project. If you take a genuine interest in shooting a project by getting to know the people working the site and are respectful to them and honoring what they do, then chances are they will treat you with the equal respect you give them. I've been shooting heavy construction and demolition for over 20 years. I first started shooting The Big Dig in Boston from outside the gates but after coming to the same location for almost a month, talking to the guys on their coffee breaks, and giving away 8x10's of them at work helped me earn their respect to the point when I was first invited inside the gates. It took me a few more months to get down into 'the hole', 15 stories below Boston and then another year to climb to the top of the Zakim Bridge to shoot the cover of my book. I've worked alongside some of the best operators in the business. The crew I work with now knows me so well, that we work side by side, respectfully, never getting in each others way, impeding progress or violating and safety regulations. Getting to that point takes YEARS. If you guys really want to take pictures of a site and what the ironworkers, operating engineers, laborers, carpenters and everyone else in the union trades are doing to build America, do it the right way, with respect and honor. Thanks for your input Steven, I did exactly as you described. I was in almost the same spot everyday, I was also respectful of what was going on, if I felt I was somehow in the way I moved to a safer vantage point. I did something along the lines of what you did with the pictures, I gave the laborers, operators and even a foreman pictures and eventually made up picture cd's for them as well as for one of the DOT guys. Good job, Rob. Keep up the great work. As you move forward, building a relationship with a company and getting to know the key players (crane operators, lead foremen, owners of companies) remember one thing..... take nothing for granted and never assume that just because you were on the last job that it will work for the next. Always ask permission, always be 100% PPE compliant and never get in the way. The last guy you want to be is the obnoxious photo guy or girl that shows up at every job and walks right up to a machine and starts snapping photos assuming that you belong there. Another one to keep an eye out for is the GWC (guys with cameras) MWAC ,DWAC, BWAC, GWAC (mom,dad,bf,gf with a camera), with their monster sports shooter lenses shooting from parking garages, minvans, tree stands.... cameras wedged between chainlink fences, showing up at the crack of dawn, experts in their own minds thinking if they have the best, most expensive cameras out there then they are 'real photographers'. Good advice: keep it simple, stay away from the latest greatest gadgets, become one with your camera, trust your instinct.
Stephen SetteDucati, Manager of Marketing and MediaMCM Management Corp.
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This has become a major issue in my line of work. With the capabilities of cellphones, etc, it is not uncommon to have someone photograph or record the police doing their thing. From traffic stops to fights, and so on, there is a good chance that someone is on the sidewalk recording it in some way. A lot of that makes it on to youtube. There are cases that are going up to various courts, regarding this. Almost every court, in almost every part of the country, that has heard a case involving this has said that it is NOT illegal to photograph or record police, or anyone or thing, that is on public property (public property being property that is open to the general public without control of some sort (fence, gate, paying for a service, or habitation, etc.) Generally it has been found in the courts that recording what is open to the public's eye shot is not a violation of law. Now, if one is asked to stop, and continues to do so, in some states that may classify as harassment, depending on how the state's laws are written. Really, the whole thing is a relatively new issue, due to the fact that law has not kept up with technology. I imagine that in the year or so, there will be case law set for this type of thing. Until then, the best thing to do is be respectful of other's wishes.
Kyle C
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Kyllerontherocks: Here is a perfect example, skip to 1:32 in this video. I know its stupid whats going on in the video but, that cop was taking it way to far, he is taking his job way to seriously, and letting that shinny badge on his shirt get to his head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nVmm3zobCM&feature=relmfuOtherwise, this is also exactly why I posted this thread the way I did and said what I said. Its a perfect example of how certain members on this forum go head over heels over something so stupid. It honestly makes me laugh to see how mad some of you get. I'm sorry but, I didn't drive 45 minutes to take videos and photos of a machine just to be told I can't use them, I make a living off it and it pays my bills. You can't post anything on this forum anymore without getting scrutinized about stupid little things just like this thread.
-Mike
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At my department, unless it is an interference with the investigation or the safety of us, or others, we just let them do it. Don't let one person's actions speak for others in the same profession. Unfortunately the only ones people pay attention to are the bad ones.
Kyle C
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CAT324DL wrote: Funny how the operator told me not to post videos of it on the internet CAT324DL wrote: You can't post anything on this forum anymore without getting scrutinized about stupid little things just like this thread. The first quote is where you went wrong. Sometimes/usually talking less is better.
Real men drive diesels!
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diecast_dirtboy wrote:CAT324DL wrote: Funny how the operator told me not to post videos of it on the internet CAT324DL wrote: You can't post anything on this forum anymore without getting scrutinized about stupid little things just like this thread. The first quote is where you went wrong. Sometimes/usually talking less is better. I said that on purpose, just to ignite some sparks 
-Mike
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Kyllerontherocks wrote:At my department, unless it is an interference with the investigation or the safety of us, or others, we just let them do it. Don't let one person's actions speak for others in the same profession. Unfortunately the only ones people pay attention to are the bad ones. I'm not saying all officers are like that but there are a handful out there. Its the cops like the one in the video who make the good ones such as you look bad, some just take things to far where they should have just walked away instead.
-Mike
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There are people like that in every profession. And understand that officer's frustration.... When there are other, real, priority calls that officers need to be dealing with, these guys are tying up beat officers on their pranks, leaving the people that actually need an officer's help, without. There is a lot more to the officer's concern than what the eye shows. The cameras... the hell with them, not worth the time or energy worrying about them, but the fact of the matter is that the "prank" in general, while comical, is tying up officers.
Kyle C
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CAT324DL wrote:diecast_dirtboy wrote:CAT324DL wrote: Funny how the operator told me not to post videos of it on the internet CAT324DL wrote: You can't post anything on this forum anymore without getting scrutinized about stupid little things just like this thread. The first quote is where you went wrong. Sometimes/usually talking less is better. I said that on purpose, just to ignite some sparks No you didn't, you said it because you have no respect for the guy who politely asked you not to post the photos or videos on the net.
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Cubanb343 wrote:CAT324DL wrote:diecast_dirtboy wrote:CAT324DL wrote: Funny how the operator told me not to post videos of it on the internet CAT324DL wrote: You can't post anything on this forum anymore without getting scrutinized about stupid little things just like this thread. The first quote is where you went wrong. Sometimes/usually talking less is better. I said that on purpose, just to ignite some sparks No you didn't, you said it because you have no respect for the guy who politely asked you not to post the photos or videos on the net. BINGO! That's the bottom line here. No-one gives a rat's @ss that you took the pictures, it's the fact you decided to be an ignorant little douche and post them online against the operators wishes.
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HeavyHaul wrote:Cubanb343 wrote:CAT324DL wrote:diecast_dirtboy wrote:CAT324DL wrote: Funny how the operator told me not to post videos of it on the internet CAT324DL wrote: You can't post anything on this forum anymore without getting scrutinized about stupid little things just like this thread. The first quote is where you went wrong. Sometimes/usually talking less is better. I said that on purpose, just to ignite some sparks No you didn't, you said it because you have no respect for the guy who politely asked you not to post the photos or videos on the net. BINGO! That's the bottom line here. No-one gives a rat's @ss that you took the pictures, it's the fact you decided to be an ignorant little douche and post them online against the operators wishes. Agreed. No respect. Losers do stuff like that
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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FREE POPCORN!!!! FREE POPCORN!!!! GET CHA FREE POPCORN!!!
popcorn is done, anyone one want any?
-Zack
Zack
"You can take the kid out of the sand box , But you can't take the sand box out of the Kid."
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HeavyHaul wrote:Cubanb343 wrote:CAT324DL wrote:diecast_dirtboy wrote:CAT324DL wrote: Funny how the operator told me not to post videos of it on the internet CAT324DL wrote: You can't post anything on this forum anymore without getting scrutinized about stupid little things just like this thread. The first quote is where you went wrong. Sometimes/usually talking less is better. I said that on purpose, just to ignite some sparks No you didn't, you said it because you have no respect for the guy who politely asked you not to post the photos or videos on the net. BINGO! That's the bottom line here. No-one gives a rat's @ss that you took the pictures, it's the fact you decided to be an ignorant little douche and post them online against the operators wishes. Well aren't you mature, good lord dude give it up. You're the one looking like a "douche" right now because of the "personal vendetta" you seem to have against Mike.
Rob
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Threads like this are why I love this forum
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I don't normally reply to posts like this. Its probably just just some spotty little git shouting about ' his right to do this' . However just because you can does not mean you should. I've been in and out of mines here in the UK, USA, Canada, for a lot of years, and have been told '' you can come in but do not use the photo's for advertising and no internet''. Thats the deal, they give up their time for you and you reciprocate. I would mortified if I thought I would get someone the sack through my selfish desire. Its a tough world in work right now, surely this must of crossed your mind when you posted this? The operator told you not to post it, what were you thinking of? On a more selfish note, it just screws it up for the rest of us, and ultimately yourself. Its a completely self defeating attitude, you actually shot yourself in the foot. Not so smart now, are we? Why do you think you have attracted some much flack on the forum? Its a lesson learnt sunshine, if you don't want to be thought of as a complete tosser, take note. I just hope we get some moderation on the forum soon.
Mark Bridle
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